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badbart
Last week, Texas officials raided a self-contained community of polygamists on very loose allegations that a 16 year-old member of the community had been sexually abused by a man she was forced to marry.
QUOTE
Law enforcement officials remain in Eldorado after raiding the compound of convicted Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs on Friday.

Officers from Midland, the Texas Rangers, and Child Protective Services descended on the compound Friday morning after allegations of abuse surfaced.

They later stormed the facility just before noon.

52 girls were removed and 18 are in CPS custody.

Child Protective Services says the girls, range in age from infants to 17 years old.
source

Somehow, the allgations from one girl led to an entire community being torn apart because of alleged "mistreatment of children." The 52 children said to have been taken intially quickly ballooned.

QUOTE
Authorities said Monday they have taken legal custody of 401 children who lived on an isolated West Texas polygamist retreat built by imprisoned "prophet" Warren Jeffs.

The children are being kept at a temporary shelter at historic Fort Concho in nearby San Angelo while authorities investigate whether a child bride gave birth on the ranch at age 15.
source

I'm not a polygamist, have never actually known a polygamist and have, admittedly, been just as quick to laugh at their strangeness whne I've seen them in a Southern Utah's Costco (they love the Costco). But something about this whole thing smells fishy.

Even though there's no doubt that polygamy is illegal and...well, a little freaky, are these women really only sticking around because they've been brainwashed?
QUOTE
"Keep sweet, it's exactly that. No matter what, it's a matter of life and death. You don't ask why. You don't do anything except do what you're told," said former member Pam Black, who was married as a teenager while she was in the sect.

Even with those rules, many women remain loyal to Jeffs.
"I have a right to worship any damn thing I want; wear any damn clothes I want," said one female follower.
source

It does sound a little Stepford Wife-ish and sad, but a lot of people are sheep and couldn't get by without someone telling them what to do. Maybe those are the people who have chosen this lifestyle. Who am I to judge?


So where do my allegations of Baptist involvement come from?

Check out this ABC News video.

I could be way off base, but it seems strange that all these kids were usehered away in Baptist busses when the state is making this raid. Maybe there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I can't think of one.
QUOTE
A Baptist congregation housed about 80 women and children April 4-6 after a raid on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS) near Eldorado, Texas.

Members of First Baptist Church in Eldorado embraced the opportunity to minister in Christ's name, pastor Andy Anderson said.

First Baptist also loaned the state of Texas the use of two 25-seat church buses to help transport more than 180 women and children from the 1,619-acre polygamist compound.
source

Sounds more like a recruitment drive to me.

It sure seems like facts are being misrepresented in story after story, which just fuels my conspiracy suspicions.
QUOTE
While the nightmare of confinement within a restrictive sect in West Texas may be over for more than 400 children in Texas, the outside world may present them with unique health threats.

"I don't know what they've been told about us, but it's not good," Barbara Arendt, a volunteer who helped receive the children at the Baptist Church at El Dorado, told ABC News. "My understanding is that they are told we are from the devil."
source

Nightmare? Where in the hell did that come from? Other than the single unconfirmed allegation of abuse, there have been no reports of anything other than an idyllic, if a bit weird, life in a closed community.

But don't let the facts stand in your way, Texas.
QUOTE
Gary Banks, a lawyer representing Child Protective Services, told the judge the state believes "there is a systematic process at the ranch near Eldorado at which children were exploited and sexually abused."
source

I just don't see where these "accusations" are coming from. Other than the caller (who has not yet been found) and the guy she fingered as her abuser (a guy who hasn't bee in in Texas for 30 years), they have nothing.

QUOTE
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRH...4DDo4QD902AIAO0

Great, that's just what these kids need - throw them into the notorisioulsy abused and corrupt foster care system where they can learn all about being sexually abused.

So...what about that 16 year-old girl who reported being raped?
QUOTE
Authorities have not located or identified the 16-year-old caller, who identified herself as Sarah, and women at the compound said Monday that no such person exists.

"That person does not exist on this land," a woman who identified herself as Joy said. "This is a huge mistake."
source

Oh, it's no mistake. I think everything that has happened was carefully calculated.

I'm not the only one who thing something strange is going on.
QUOTE
Stephen Smith, an internal medicine physician in San Angelo, is part of the medical team at Fort Concho. He is wrestling with the judgments being made about the FLDS, given what he has seen - and considering abuse remains widespread in the world outside the ranch.
"In my opinion, we had to go do something about them so we didn't have to keep looking at our own behavior," he said, pointing out that "We didn't round up all the Catholic schools when we found out about their abuse." He said most of the women and children are in good health - healthier than most people. The women he has met at the compound are "quite content with their own culture.
"Even though I don't agree with their lifestyle, I got the impression that in their own little world it made sense," he said. The children seem happy, laughing and playing like children everywhere.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8908638?source=rss

But, but...what about the "nightmare of confinement?" This doesn't sound like it was much of a nightmare for these kids to me.


And you can say what you want about the polygimists, but I'll bet this never happens on one of their compounds:
QUOTE
A gunman drove up and opened fire at a child's birthday party, killing a woman and 5-year-old girl and wounding four others, authorities said.

Annette Stevenson, 48, died at the scene Sunday night and Queshawn Stevenson, 5, who had been shot in the neck and stomach, died early Monday at a hospital, according to the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office.

Four other people were wounded — a woman and three children, including the birthday girl, who turned 9 on Monday, authorities said.
source

I'll bet the shooter and victims were members of a local Baptist church.



Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't really there, but I don't trust any of you religious bastards. I'll look after my own soul, thank you very much.
Father Ted
It makes me laugh.
Not in a funny way, more out of incredulous disbelief...... head shaking pity.

It doesn't matter what the truth is.
Between this, WACO and the (apparently) countless numbers of similar compounds scattered around Texas, there can only be three conclusions.

The Texas law authorities have got the tact of a bus.
I understand why they can call in hundreds of social workers at such short notice. There is obviously a need for them.
The height of confusion must be fathers day in Texas.


What is it with you lot and all these suicide cults and places like this?
You talk about freedoms, but the very reason theses places exist is the real question.
What is so fucked up with America that people see the need to live like this in the first place?

It's not freedom.
It's a siege mentality! WHY?
Is there really that much difference between these groups and Moqtada al-Sadr and his Muslims hiding out in Mosques?........... fighting for their Independence just like the people at WACO?

There are going to be a lot of tears before this is finished.............. if the track record is anything to go by.
Pitchit
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 15 2008, 10:46 AM) *
been just as quick to laugh at their strangeness whne I've seen them in a Southern Utah's Costco (they love the Costco). But something about this whole thing smells fishy.

You can tell them by what they wear?

I didn't know that.

What do they look like?
badbart
QUOTE (Pitchit @ Apr 15 2008, 11:32 PM) *
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 15 2008, 10:46 AM) *
been just as quick to laugh at their strangeness whne I've seen them in a Southern Utah's Costco (they love the Costco). But something about this whole thing smells fishy.

You can tell them by what they wear?

I didn't know that.

What do they look like?

They look like they came straight off the set of Little House on the Prairie. I kid you not. The photos you've seen in the news aren't just representative of the the weird ones who live in these communes - they all dress like this.
Mike
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 15 2008, 08:51 PM) *
QUOTE (Pitchit @ Apr 15 2008, 11:32 PM) *
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 15 2008, 10:46 AM) *
been just as quick to laugh at their strangeness whne I've seen them in a Southern Utah's Costco (they love the Costco). But something about this whole thing smells fishy.

You can tell them by what they wear?

I didn't know that.

What do they look like?

They look like they came straight off the set of Little House on the Prairie. I kid you not. The photos you've seen in the news aren't just representaive of the the weird ones who live in these communes - they all dress like this.

That might just mean they are from a mennonite or amish community. We see tham a lot at one of the childen's hospital here.
badbart
QUOTE (Mike @ Apr 16 2008, 03:14 PM) *
That might just mean they are from a mennonite or amish community. We see tham a lot at one of the childen's hospital here.

In Missouri, maybe. But not in southern Utah.
Mike
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 16 2008, 10:54 AM) *
QUOTE (Mike @ Apr 16 2008, 03:14 PM) *
That might just mean they are from a mennonite or amish community. We see tham a lot at one of the childen's hospital here.

In Missouri, maybe. But not in southern Utah.

Maybe they took a road trip.
badbart
QUOTE (Mike @ Apr 16 2008, 06:31 PM) *
Maybe they took a road trip.

Okay, okay...
Oh, and there's also the fact that it's one farmer dude with several homely old-to-youngish chicks all dressed this way.



But we're forgetting the reason I brought this topic up in the first place: a very-publicly known injustice has occurred in the state of Texass. And few people seem to care or realize that their brand of Flying Spaghetti Monster worship could be next.
badbart
If this is true, it's the most disturbing thing to come from this story so far (but historically, not really out of the ordinary - just frowned upon now).
QUOTE
A child welfare worker said some women at the sect's ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRH...4DDo4QD90467D80



Still, I can't help but be suspicious about the alleged call that prompted this raid.
QUOTE
The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her.

The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.

How does an unidentified caller match a description? Was it a video phone? Did the caller describe herself? Seems suspicious.
Mike
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 18 2008, 11:12 AM) *
If this is true, it's the most disturbing thing to come from this story so far (but historically, not really out of the ordinary - just frowned upon now).
QUOTE
A child welfare worker said some women at the sect's ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRH...4DDo4QD90467D80



Still, I can't help but be suspicious about the alleged call that prompted this raid.
QUOTE
The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her.

The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.

How does an unidentified caller match a description? Was it a video phone? Did the caller describe herself? Seems suspicious.

That is the one thing that does bother me about this. Most of the stuff that has come out just makes me ill. But then you hear about the caller and the fact that they can't locate or identify her. It does make you stop and think about it.
doughnutfairy
QUOTE (badbart @ Apr 16 2008, 11:54 AM) *
QUOTE (Mike @ Apr 16 2008, 03:14 PM) *
That might just mean they are from a mennonite or amish community. We see tham a lot at one of the childen's hospital here.

In Missouri, maybe. But not in southern Utah.



The polygamists/Mormons/whatever you want to call them here dress that way. There is a girl in my small group at church who is a "reformed" Mormon. Besides, I didn't think the Amish went shopping. I thought they made or grew everything themselves.

I personally believe Baptists in large numbers are far more dangerous than any other religious group. This statment was hilarious to me:

QUOTE
"I don't know what they've been told about us, but it's not good," Barbara Arendt, a volunteer who helped receive the children at the Baptist Church at El Dorado, told ABC News. "My understanding is that they are told we are from the devil."


It proves just how hypocritical Baptists can be. I was raised in a Baptist church. We were taught that any person that practiced any other religion was going straight to hell because they were being influenced by the devil.
badbart
Holy crap, forget the polygamists. Check out the Irish Travelers.
QUOTE
Murphy Village Travelers dress their preschoolers - kids as young as five to six years old - in sequined designer gowns. They put makeup on their toddlers.

"They're taught to dance early in very voluptuous ways that you wouldn't have your little girl you know, to touch themselves, to rub themselves, to move, to get attention," says Patsy Hart, one of few outsiders to marry an Irish Traveler in Murphy Village.

She says those parties are often negotiations for money and marriage.

"They could be playing in a sandbox one day, and snatched up and took and got married the next and be ten years old and have a baby by the time they are 11," says Hart.

Patsy Hart says her husband was 17 when he married his first wife - who was only 11.

What did he say when Hart asked him how he could marry a child? "He just said that's the way it is," she says. "You can't do anything about it."
source

Funny, I don't see any bible-thumping Baptists coming after these yahoos.

And if you want true stories about these people, talk to DF.
doughnutfairy
I kid you not, the toddlers really do wear high heels and makeup. You can tell there is a lot of inbreeding going on because many of the Travelers have the same odd look about them. Occasionally, they will try to bring "new blood" into the clan. Rumor has it, they look for people with blonde hair and blue eyes. When Zackary and Erica were younger, my mom used to joke that the Gypsies were going to try to steal them.

edit: The Baptists are afraid of the Travelers. No way in hell would they go after them.
Mike
QUOTE (doughnutfairy @ Apr 23 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Rumor has it, they look for people with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Sounds a bit nazi like. So they have a thing for the aryan race.
doughnutfairy
QUOTE (Mike @ Apr 24 2008, 09:51 AM) *
QUOTE (doughnutfairy @ Apr 23 2008, 09:02 PM) *
Rumor has it, they look for people with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Sounds a bit nazi like. So they have a thing for the aryan race.



I don't think it has anything to do with the aryan race or nazis. I think it has more to do with they all look alike. Seriously. I'm sure they're trying to add a few new genes to the gene pool.
badbart
QUOTE (doughnutfairy @ Apr 24 2008, 02:21 PM) *
I don't think it has anything to do with the aryan race or nazis. I think it has more to do with they all look alike. Seriously. I'm sure they're trying to add a few new genes to the gene pool.

Sweet!

Sign me up - a nomadic life of crime. What could be more fulfilling?
badbart
Texas's case agains the polygamists just keeps getting thinner and thinner.
QUOTE
"These kids don't know who the president is. Don't know that we're at war. Don't know who Elvis was, don't know who the Beatles were," said Bobby Gilliam, director of the Methodist Children's home in Waco, Texas, where some of the children will be staying.
source

So what? They're kids.

My kids only know who Elvis and The Beatles are because they've been forced to eat at a few 50s-themed diners. I'll bet most young kids don't have any idea who Elvis or The Beatles are. I'll bet about one in ten know anything about current evens, including the war and the current president. Yet theses people throwing this shit out there like it has some relevance and proves how "abused" these kids are.

The whole "shipping kids off to proper Christian foster homes" while they await trial is laughable. As is the DNA testing to prove...that the kids share the same parents. Hello? Nobody's denying that groups of these kids all have the same father.

Nothing about Texas's actions in this case makes any sense.

And then there's the fingering of the Schizophrenic who made the call that started this whole mess. She posed as the girl who was being abused in the compound...yet she hasn't been arrested and Texas hasn't been deterred in their "rescue" of these kids by the revelation that it was a phoney phone call.
QUOTE
An arrest warrant affidavit said 33-year-old Rozita Swinton had previously used a phone number to call the crisis hot line in Texas that received the calls prompting the raid.

The calls came before authorities raided the Yearning for Zion Ranch on April 3, but it was not clear whether authorities believe Swinton made the calls that triggered the raid. Swinton has not been arrested for allegedly making calls to the Texas shelter. She was arrested last week on charges of making a false report in an unrelated case.

The affidavit details dozens of calls from late 2006 through April 2008 to abuse centers and police departments in Washington, Colorado and Texas. The callers always identified themselves as a young girl, at various times calling herself Dana, April, V, Jennifer and Sarah Barlow. Sarah Barlow is the name of the 16-year-old who called the Texas crisis center.

Seems more and more suspicious, does it not?
badbart
At least none of those teen-impregnating polygamists is claiming to be the Messiah (as far as I know).
QUOTE
State police spokesman Peter Olson says 66-year-old Wayne Bent was picked up without incident Tuesday at the remote former ranch where he and his followers live. He's facing three charges of criminal sexual contact.

Bent goes by the name of Michael Travesser and claims to be the Messiah. State child welfare officials say there have been allegations of inappropriate contact between Bent and children at the northeastern New Mexico compound.
source

Apparently, this guy has been nailing underage girls for a long time. But one never knows how much of what we read on the Internet (or see/read on the news outlets) is actually true.
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